SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Lone Originator Pulse, the show for Lone officers who want to know what's actually working in the market right now. I'm three lane chafers, and every episode I'm going to sit down with originators and industry voices who are in the trenches, and we get into the real tactics behind the numbers, the plays, the tools, and the habits driving today's top production. The pulse is produced by MMI1. So we use real production data to find the people worth learning from. And every conversation is built to send you back to your desk with at least one thing you can try this week. So let's get into it. Hey guys, welcome back. This is our second episode of the Loan Originator Pulse. And we are super excited to have Heath Barnes with us today. And to remind all of you out there, I am Courtney with MMI. And you guys are in for a treat as we continue down this road and launching this podcast. So today I have Heath with me here. And you know, before I roll it over to Heath and let him give a little 20-second update of who he is and what his business looks like today, I just want to reiterate, Heath, if I am correct in saying this, I believe for about the last three plus years, you've pretty much maintained doing 40 mil a year consistently. And in this market, I mean that's crazy. And I think you're to date, you're you're sitting at about 25 mil. So maybe maybe 26, we're gonna do 50 mil, right? Instead of 40 mil. How about that?

SPEAKER_00 1:35

That's the idea.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

That's the idea for sure. Well, Heath, give everyone a 26 20-second version of your business. Like, where are you? What market are you in? What role? Who are you serving? Kind of give everybody that little 20-second version of yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Absolutely, Courtney. So I started in the business in 2002. I'm in Houston, Texas. I work for Guild Mortgage. Uh I'm a branch manager slash loan officer. I have a small team. It's myself and three other team members, and we really service uh kind of jumbo business uh and kind of the higher-end conforming business uh here in Houston. So um, yeah, that's just a little bit about me and the business people that I serve. Most of my business is here in the Houston market, but I'm also licensed in about 10 other states.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

All right. Well, as we kind of set up this conversation and and we talk through some stuff, um, talk to me about what your market looks like right now compared to that of what it maybe looked like last year.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Yeah, so the market so far this year, it seems like buyers are come more buyers are coming into the market. Uh, clients are starting to get used to the higher interest rates and learning that rates aren't going to go down. And so it seems like there for me, there's I'm seeing more buyers in the market. Although uh it's still fairly competitive out there when it comes to interest rates and knowing how to position yourself and handle um all different types of clients will I think help loan officers succeed in this market.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

So awesome.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

And then for you, what does your book at business look like as far as like the comparison of purchase versus refi, right? Or or any one particular product that you really see that's that's what you're really moving the needle with.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Yeah, so my business is about 90% purchase. I do about uh 30% jumbo and about 50% conforming, uh, and about 20% FHA. And so though, I mean, for me, the way I really move the needle in my market is the the one thing that I think separates me. After 25 years in the business, um I'm really uh proactive in in uh having clients get 100% approved as opposed to being pre-approved. One of the biggest issues I th I see in the market, and I uh coach people in this industry as well with Go Coaching, is I think loan officers try to do business over the phone, and we're in a technology bus we're in a technology world right now where I think we need to use technology where instead of doing business over the over the phone, I do business mainly on Zoom with people. And so about 95% of all of my client meetings happen on Zoom, and I think it creates a relationship with the client, and that's what I'm looking for is a relationship-based business. So I do an introductory call, which is about maybe five minutes with the client, and then I set up a face-to-face meeting with them within 24 hours of that initial phone call. Gotcha. And I'm really selling them on going through the underwriting process up front as opposed to getting pre-approved.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

So Heath, you recently joined um myself and Rick on a webinar, and um, and as we're talking about, you know, you're on Zoom and you want to 100% qualify your barbers, you know, I know one of the things that I think you take a lot of pride in is the fact that, you know, those folks that are truly rate shopping, right, are, you know, you almost take pride in switching that mindset with them, right? Um, and and so as we talk about you being on Zoom and we talk about relationships and how much that matters, um, really connecting with your borrowers and and driving that relationship home. And with that, you you very much oftentimes will take someone that was so targeted on the rate. And by the time it's all said and done, like that's not even that's an afterthought, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Kind of share with this audience um, you know, how you go about doing that and and how that works for you.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

Yeah, for sure. I think uh what most loan officers uh resist is those rate shoppers. And as soon as they get a rate shopper, they're like, oh my gosh, a rate shopper. But you know, if you can look at rate shoppers in this context, 20% of the clients are gonna shop no matter what, and you're probably not gonna win that. Focus on the 60% uh that don't shop. And those 60% are more interested in relationship with you. And by getting on video with them and building some rapport up front, uh, you're gonna be able to identify those clients that are actually shopping for rates. Uh, because the first thing they're gonna say is what's your rate? It's also the question most people ask is because it's the only thing that they know is to ask about rate. And so what I do is I immediately when I when I speak with them, I'm the one that speaks with uh I talk to the client immediately when I um at the very beginning, and I set up a call within 24 hours, and 90% of my calls are Zoom. And with all the loan officers that I uh coach, a lot of them find that clients won't get on Zoom. But I I think we're making that assumption that they're not gonna get on Zoom. I don't even give them the option. So I just say, hey, we're gonna meet on Zoom, and then uh we meet on Zoom, and I'm really trying to build rapport. So if someone's gonna build rapport with you, most of the time they're not going to shop rate. So I also slow the process down and instead of sharing with them rates, I meet with them, go through the R process, and I meet with them twice. I meet with them uh one time to in order to get their documents, and then a week later, I then meet with them again to go over rates if that's what they want to do. And so I I I eliminate those rate shoppers because if you give somebody a rate, most likely you're not gonna get that deal anyway. So and I give them a range of interest rates.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

So gotcha. Well, and then kind of diving a little more tactical now, right? Um, so let's let's stay with those folks that are in your database. So you've closed their loan, you you built that rapport. How do you now work your database so that you are pulling that repeat business? You're getting that referral business from your database that's sitting right there, which is a gold mine for you to operate on.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

I think it's the one area that most loan officers could uh do a better job at. And so about two years ago, I decided I was gonna change my business, meaning I was gonna meet with clients after closing. So a week before closing, I do what's called a closing call where we go over the closing disclosure. I then set up a 30-day post-closing call with them. So after clients close, they often have questions about why am I getting all this mail? Where do I where do I send my first payment and things like that? So before I even close, we even close, I set up a 30-day post-closing call to answer all those questions. And then I set up a six-month call after the 30-day call. So I meet with them 30 days after closing, and then every six months. And what I have noticed over the last two years is clients do a lot less shopping when it comes time for them to refinance. They trust me because I'm guiding them along the program, uh guiding them along. Um because I'm meeting with them every six months, and they're open to that and they like that. And there's usually a reason to meet with them, whether it's their interest rate or their escrow's or their taxes. And it works really well with first-time home buyers. In fact, I had a client last week that came back to me and said, Hey, we really want to go with you. We got a better rate. If you will split the difference, we'll go with you because we like your post-closing process. And I talk about that when I meet with them up front. So it's the one area I think most loan officers could easily adjust in their business and find that they'll have a better relationship with their past clients by by having that post-closing call.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Yeah, for sure. Well, I mean, retention, I mean, it's statistically, I mean, it's you know, most loan officers they retain 18, 20% of their business, right? The 80% are going somewhere else. So, you know, more often than not, it's usually some other loan officer that's swooping in and taking your business. And why give it away? Right? I mean, why not keep it? Because it's also, I mean, it's a proven that it's easier to get repeat business from those that already trust you, those customers you already have, right? Than to go out and have to actually build more trust and go find new leads or cold call or whatever it is that you're doing, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:53

Yeah, and it also sets you apart from other loan offers. So so two tactics that I will share uh that I use often when I know someone is shopping is first, if they have purchased a home before, I will ask them, hey, what was that experience like um when you purchased a home? And I'll say, I'll say, I'll say, let me give it a stab. I said, Yeah, you contacted a real estate agent who introduced you to a loan officer, who took your loan application, they collected some documents from you, you got pre-approved, you submitted an offer, the offer was accepted, you closed on the loan, and then you never heard from them again. How does that sound about right? And they're like, Yes. And I that's when I say I apologize. I tell you personally that if I'm gonna put you in the most amount of debt you'll ever have in your life, I want to help you get out of debt. And so what my process is I'm gonna meet with you 30 days after closing and then every six months, so we can figure out how you can get out of debt since I got you into debt. And that will that separates me from anyone else if they're shopping around. Because I asked them, if they do shop around, ask the loan officer what their post-closing process is.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

So and that, yeah, so that separates me from most other loan officers, is just bringing that up for them.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Well, and I applaud you for that because to your point, so many folks just go, oh, I've closed the deal and they move on, right? And it's just it's it's out of sight, out of mind, right? Like I'm not working on that file anymore. And and we don't, you know, I it's kind of like a doctor, right? I mean, I I I realize that you know, you're not spending quite the same amount of money, but well, you could be, depending on what you're going to the doctor for, right? But if you go in and you feel like you're nothing more than a chart number, you walk out and and you just you don't feel like they heard you, or that are they really working through this problem with you, you know, what have you? And so it's kind of no different, right? I mean, are you a file number that a loan officer is just closing the deal and like I said, out of sight, out of mind, and so you're done, so they're done, or is it someone that, you know, it's kind of like that annual physical, right? You know, it's like, are you someone that's still invested in the health, right? And you're still invested in the health of this investment that they've made, right? And how can that investment continue to be this beneficial thing for this homeowner in more ways than one? And then I love the fact that you say, Listen, listen, Courtney, I'm gonna put you in the most debt you've ever been in, but I'm gonna be right by your side as I get you out of debt. Like I love that you actually turn it and spin it in that way. That's a great way to look at it.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Yeah, so well when I have that um when I meet with them uh a week before closing, number one, I'm going over the closing disclosure. I'm also asking them how their experience was. And I'm asking them, hey, will you leave me a Google review? Uh Google, if you're listening to this call, is like it's the one it's the one place where they need to leave a review. If you can leave it at Google or Zillow, but Google in the future, it's it's how people are gonna recognize um how you treat other people. And so that 30-day post-closing, if they haven't left me a Google review, I followed up on that 30-day post-closing call to ask them for a Google review. So here's what I here's another tip that I here did recently is I took all of my Google reviews and I put it in a chat GPT and I said, Hey, uh, would you read all of my Google reviews and create 25 different reviews for clients that I can give them that will put me at the top of the search engine in Google when people Google me in the future? And so now I have 25 reviews that I then can share with clients. And most of the time I'll ask clients, hey, do you mind if I just show you what the review is that I wrote? And it's already AI, it's AI has looked at it and said, This is gonna move me to the top of my page. And so most people are more than happy to to share the review that I wrote for them.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Yeah, yeah. Okay, well, the the the viewers andor listeners, um, I think he just shared a little secret sauce right there. So well, and speaking still kind of tactical, um, so we're talking about all this stuff that you do, but what are those tools or systems that you are using that's doing that heavy lifting for you? Like, are you truly picking up the phone and calling? Like, are you truly, you know, are you using some kind of CRM that's sending out something automatic for you? Do you have some kind of AI, you know, outbound caller that's working for you? I mean, everybody talks about what's their tech stack, what's working, what's not working.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Yeah, here at Guild, I'm lucky. I'm I moved to Guild about a year and a half ago. One of the reasons I did is because we have Salesforce that's integrated with our LOS system, and we have AI that's embedded into our Salesforce. And so I just tap into our uh uh type into our AI system within Salesforce and say, hey, what are the top 10 priorities that I need to do today uh according to my uh Salesforce, which has all my leads and all my clients and my pipeline. So I get a list every day. I'm lucky enough to have AI that's connected to our uh Salesforce. So it's giving me the real estate agents the call, the clients the call, everything to do. I don't even have to think about it. So that's that's really our tech stack. It's Salesforce and AI that's connected to our Salesforce.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Gotcha. All right, so very lucky. Um, and and I know, you know, obviously we do tons of business ourselves with Guild, and um, and you've got a great team there and such a great group, and I know you guys have amazing tools, um, but I wanted you to share how you were using those tools, of course. Yeah, um, but kind of shifting gears now as we talk about the market pulse, right? Um, I'm gonna ask you, um, what would you tell an LO who's literally just struggling in this market right now? Like if you were giving advice, because I know you do coach, right? So if someone is just grinding, but they're still just struggling in this market, what would be your best advice to them?

SPEAKER_00 17:25

Yeah, well, first of all, is uh when you're meeting with clients, uh, are you meeting them? Are you using this telephone or are you doing a Zoom meeting with them? That's number one. Uh also, if when you're going over numbers with them, if you're not, if you want to separate yourself from someone else, make sure you're using something called mortgage coach. So, what mortgage coach does is it makes you look more professional by giving you like an eight-page document to go over loan uh loan terms with clients. Um, you know, also I still do it today. I cold call real estate agents. So if you get if you have one contract and uh there's two agents on that contract, you do a really good job with that specific client. There's two agents that you can, or what at least one agent, a listing agent that you can reach out to on a regular basis. So when I get a new contract, if I don't know the agent, especially the listing agent, I will call the listing agent at the beginning of the process and say, hey, we're gonna be closing in 30 days. If I keep you updated and it's a smooth closing, would you have any reservation in meeting with me at the end of closing just for a 15-minute Zoom meeting? No listing agent ever says no. Now, sometimes it's a little bit more difficult to get them on the call after closing, which is why I call them like a week before closing the schedule. But I think that's an easy way for a a newer loan officer to meet with a real estate agent is to give them a promise, one or two things that you're gonna do during the transaction and that if you close on time, would they agree to meet with you? So I think um for new loan officers, that's a great tactic. And at the end of the day, if you don't like um cold calling, you can also do what's called social selling. So I'm always connecting with agents through social media and and liking their information so that you're seen by them before you reach out to them, so they see you on a regular basis. So I have a list of like 50 agents that on a daily basis I'm liking and uh harding and commenting their uh material so that uh they already see me before I reach out to them.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Yeah. Yeah, social selling is huge. I mean, like, and and what a way to connect when you know you are new to the business, right? And and maybe you haven't really got your name out there and you haven't really been maybe at a conference or any kind of event that you've been able to be face to face and cultivate and start, you know, building those relationships. So you're right. I mean, that's just it's such a great way to you know get your face seen, get out there, communicate. Um, so now what do you find to be um, and I and I only ask you this because I hear different people say different things, and I also hear folks say like it's based on maybe someone's age. Um, but if you were talking about LinkedIn, Insta, Facebook, TikTok, where do you spend most of your time?

SPEAKER_00 20:33

What do I spend I spend most of my time on Instagram, but a lot of my um I'm on uh Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok. But most of my clients on Facebook. So I get a lot of interaction on Facebook and uh Instagram. But it's it's really hard to know in social the social media from it's my generation, I'm 56 years old. People that are uh Gen, I think it's Gen X are Facebook, millennials are Instagram, and then was it Jim Y? Who's on TikTok? The younger people are on TikTok.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

The younger people are on TikTok. Listen, I'm right, I'm right there with you in the 50s, all right? So but I say that because again, like, you know, I mean, I have adult children, right? And so it's funny because they'll be like, you know, mom, like it's not we don't do Facebook anymore, right? Like we do, right? And it's like, okay, whatever, you know, or or you know, it'll be like they'll send you some TikTok something and you'll be like, I don't have TikTok, and they'll be like, How do you not have TikTok? You know, and so you know, whatever. So why I ask, because to that point, um, you're working with people in different age brackets, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

And so when people are talking about, you know, which social channel do you use? I really do often say to all of them, like if people are asking me, I'm like, every single one of them is what you should be using, right? Because you You've got to cater to what those, you know, what those different generations are and how someone spends their time, right? And that's no different than even communicating with your folks, right? Because the different age brackets, like are you know, the older generation, like we like phone calls, right? Like we want to talk to someone, right? You know, you put a 20-something, if you're talking to a 20-something year old, right? I mean, like, you better you better type fast.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

That right, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

You know, because they're gonna text everything.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

So, you know, I think one of the things, one of the strategy that I'm using currently is I just made three long form videos for YouTube, and I think the future will be YouTube. I think the future, if if you're not doing long-term, uh, long form video, which is video that is like 10 minutes or longer, um, on YouTube, that you're gonna be more recognizable. People of a younger age are going to YouTube for more of their information to learn uh what the home buying process looks like. They can't get that on Instagram, they can't get it on TikTok, but they can see you on Instagram or TikTok or Facebook, and then they can go to your YouTube page and learn more about you. And you can easily just go into Chat GPT or Claude and say, Hey, I, you know, as my social media director, can you give me a series of 10 long-form videos for first-time homebuyers uh and give me the scripts, and it'll literally give you the scripts, and all you have to do is put it on a teleprompter and read and record.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

So yeah, 100%. Yeah, I think that's a great I think that's a great tip. Well, all right, so we're gonna go into the uh rapid fire rounds. We're gonna go into the pulse check.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

So one app or tool that you can't live without.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Uh one app or tool that I can't live without um my Salesforce app that I have on my phone. I use it for new applications, and I also use it for um for sending out pre-approval letters. Uh, hit them up as well. Hit them up as an app where you can send out multiple uh text messages to agents, and it comes from your cell phone. So hit them up is the second one.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

All right. All right. The last thing or the most recent thing that happened that made you rethink how you do business.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

Uh yeah, re I'm getting a lot more um activity through AI, and what I'm doing is I am posting on my Google Business page a flyer plus answering a question that either a first-time home buyer or an investor might have, and it's 1500 characters. And I think in the future, if you do not have a Google business page, you need to set up a Google business page and you need to start posting on your Google business page because that's where AI is going to read your information.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Okay. And then what is, in your opinion, what is one thing? So, like, if you were gonna ask a loan officer something about their pipeline, what is the one number or the one thing that like that loan officer should be able to automatically spit out to you?

SPEAKER_00 25:33

I mean, all they should always know their leads. You should always know how many leads you have for the month and what your closing ratio is from leads to closed transactions. So it should be around 20%. Anything above 20% is really good. It tells you uh what your either there's an issue with your sales process or your referral partners, uh, but knowing how many leads you have for the month, these are leading indicators that's gonna tell you if you focus on your leads, your deals will come, your closings will come, but just focus on getting as many leads as you can every month.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

Love it. All right, so we're gonna talk takeaways for the audience here. So if our listeners do one thing when they get off this call, if they've taken any nugget information here, what would be the one thing that you think that they should do and take out?

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Yeah, if you want to separate yourself as a loan officer, have a post-closing process. It'll help you become more valuable to your clients. Clients ask about rate in the what when there's an absence of value. And so your value as a loan officer is helping clients understand that you're gonna help them get out of debt because you got them into debt. So setting up a 30-day post-closing call and then meeting with them every six months, people want to meet with you, they want to know more about their money, they want to know how you're gonna help them get out of debt. So that would be my one takeaway.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

And then my last thing, Heath, is again, I know that you do, um, I know you do do um some coaching. I know that you work with folks, I know that there's people on your team. But if someone did want to reach out, find you, connect with you, they wanted to pick your brain a little bit more. Can you share with everyone how they can reach you?

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Yeah, you can uh just uh send me a DM on uh Instagram. It's uh the loan whisperer uh on Instagram. You can just send me a DM. I'm happy to uh help anyone that needs help uh in their loan in their mortgage business. Yeah, if you have questions about anything that we talked about today, or you can send me a text message, 832-771-8194 is my cell phone. You can send me a text.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Perfect. Well, Heath, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for being a guest with us on the show. And um, and it has been a pleasure chatting with you. And guys, have a great rest of your day as you continue on and take Heath's advice. Go ahead and get that get that postclose campaign started and um and make sure that you work on that process. So until next time, we will talk to you guys later.