SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to the Loan Originator Pulse, the show for loan officers who want to know what's actually working in the market right now. I'm Courtney Lane Schaefers, and every episode I'm going to sit down with originators and industry voices who are in the trenches and we get into the real tactics behind the numbers, the plays, the tools, and the habits driving today's top production. The Pulse is produced by MMI1. So we use real production data to find the people worth learning from. And every conversation is built to send you back to your desk with at least one thing you can try this week. So let's get into it. Hey guys, welcome back into another session of the Lone Originator Pulse. I am Courtney Lane Schaeffers with MMI1. And I am here with our guest today, Jen Van Law with North Point Bank. You guys, I am gonna let Jim toot his own horn here in just a minute. However, um, you know, there is a reason why I have certain folks on this show. And given that year to date, Jim is sitting at about 45 mil year to date right now, um, y'all, the last three years, he's basically just doubled his business three years running. Um, I think looking to do 150, 160 units. Um, you name it. I mean, the guy is killing it, doing a lot of non-QM business. Um, but Jim, 20 second version, what does your business look like? Who are you? Who are you serving? Um, how long have you been doing this? Um, kind of tell everyone how long you've been in this business.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Well, thanks for having me. Yeah, I've been uh I wrote my first loan in 1993. So um I've been doing this for just a tad bit of time. My business is really um split up between the Northeast and the South. Uh uh spent most of my life in the Northeast um and in a various different kind of roles in the mortgage banking industry. Uh started as a mortgage originator and then um went cut into uh building um LO groups and and kind of have uh the last part of my career have just uh gone back to originating and uh absolutely love it. Um I do about 40% of my business still in the Northeast and then 60% in the South and um you know interspersed some other uh loans here and there. I don't have very really major secrets uh as far as uh where how I built my business. I mean, I'm very much relationship-based. Um I am, you know, I started my business before there were cell phones, and so realtors would the only way realtors would get a hold of you would be paging you. And one of the one of the things that I learned early days that if I would get back to a uh a uh real estate agent or any referral source, um, you know, divorce attorneys or anything like that, wherever I got my referrals, if I got back to people right away, I I I earned a lot of uh trust and also a lot of respect. And I I stole business away from people who were got got all done at five o'clock at night or on the weekends and didn't work. In fact, a lot of the a lot of the relationships I built early days reversed almost I reverse engineered how I worked, meaning that I started sometimes sometimes I started my day at like three o'clock in the afternoon and I worked till nine o'clock at night. Now, why did I do that? Well, back in the day, you know, all the all the um new uh agents were um doing desk duty, and the the guard at the gate, you know, at the office who didn't want us mortgage guys coming in. Well, she had she or he had gone home, and so there I was. I was able to walk in freely. I ended up having conversations with people who were brand new, um, developed uh built relationships, and kind of that's how I started my business. Uh fast forward to um a much different world in the mortgage industry, uh no more written um uh loan applications that took three hours and uh having a cell phone, which was you know, uh for those of us been had did it the other way, are so we're so grateful for technology. Um, but but there is uh it's really the same thing today. I mean, you you um are able to dominate in a market where there's so many players because you're willing to do what most people aren't willing to do, which is I'm willing to answer the phone at eight o'clock at night, even though I'm someplace and say, Hey, I got your call, and um, I'm in able to talk to them right now, but I will call you back. Some kind of recognition, you know, communication to me, that my I built my whole business on communication and responsiveness, and um, and that really hasn't changed in 30 years, even though the way we communicate and the efficiency in which we communicate has changed dramatically.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

Well, let's just let's just point out that for those on the call that have never used a pager, um, I love that you went back to the pager, right? Oh my gosh, I so remember like being someplace and like oh oh oh you know, and we all thought we were so cool when we had those.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

I'll point out and then yeah, and then racing off to a payphone booth right because you right, because you weren't near your office and like finding a payphone and racing to the phone and putting in money.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

Well, and then let's think about when the when the cell phone in the bag came out, right? You know, and like so you had this this just this massive heavy bag that you would like carry and put in your car, right? And again, you just you thought that you had like just I mean it was amazing, right? So it is so crazy when we think about what we did and where we are today. And so um, but but as you said, the the true statement in all of that, right? Is communication, being available, answering the call, answering the pager, answering what now is a text, you know, all of those things. Um, those definitely are um key factors. But yeah, for for those that are um, you know, new in the business and and might be a little bit younger, um, you just you don't even know how easy you have it now that you can just text people and not have to worry about the other. Um well I mentioned at the beginning, um, and and I I just want to touch on this, um, you know, that uh most of your business that you're doing today now is non-QM. Um, was that the case a year ago? Is this something that you recently got into in this last year, or when did you start focusing more on that particular um side, if you will?

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Yeah, so non-QM started to become a big part of my business about two years ago. Um, started to really learn uh the non-QM space. And, you know, previous to my time at North Point, I had done some non-QM loans, but they were mostly brokered deals. And, you know, um uh being a control freak that I am, I didn't like to be able to not have control of my loan files. And so I didn't do a bunch because I'm I'm not a fan of um, I'm not a fan of not delivering. And what one thing I learned about, and at least my experience was, and people could have different experiences, obviously, but you know, my experience is when um I didn't want someone to have control of my destiny, I wanted to have control of my own. So when I realized that I could do non-QM business and I didn't have to send it someplace, I really kind of leaned into it and and I was able to create a niche for myself that um, so I wasn't having a conversation that was that focused around rate. I think one of the challenges that we all have is wherever we work, whether it's a broker or a mortgage company or a bank, um, everybody is, you know, there's like this. Um I I think in in a lot of instances, uh we we uh the we find ourselves like leaning into interest rate. I don't really do that. Um, what I want to know is and sometimes even in an interest rate environment where I need to be competitive on interest rate, I'm gonna try to make that loan a non-QM loan. And the reason I am is because um when we get, for example, into the jumbo loan space where you have loan amounts that are you know a million dollars plus, nine times out of 10, when you're doing those loans, you're dealing with someone who's either self-employed, high net worth, and those people don't want you don't want you rummaging around on their tax returns. So the question that I have is listen, uh, we can do this one of two ways. I'll do it either way you want. I can either give you a full-on documentation colonoscopy, or I can get 12 months of your business bank statements and we'll be done. One is way more convenient than the other. One's gonna cost you a little bit more, but from the can and I'll can from the convenience factor, um, you're gonna really like that. And I'm not gonna have to ask you a thousand questions on where every dime of your money is. So for someone who is a little bit uh higher net worth or someone owns a business with complicated tax returns, it's a great solution because they don't want to be bothered uh documentate, you know, on the documentation side. And um, and so even when it comes even in rate-driven environments like jumbo loans, I've I'm I'm able to win in a lot of those instances because people don't go at it that way. And so um, you know, I start when I'm talking to everybody, I start with, I wonder if this would fall into non-QM. And then if it doesn't, then I obviously go other places. But that's kind of how I'm my mindset, and it's it's it's been it's been fairly successful.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

Um well, and speaking about um what's working right now, and obviously that is something that is working for you, but kind of expanding on that. Um, where are you getting your best leads that are coming in today? And and how is that maybe different from a few years ago before you were focusing as much on the non-QM?

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Um so I don't think where am I I where I'm getting my leads from. I mean, I've I'm a lot of my leads come from previous customers. So I I get those. I get um I get leads um and and I should also say I also get leads from transactions on the listing side of a lot of transactions. Because what I'm what I do after I close um after I close a loan, um I I reach out to the listing agent, especially in in a lot of instances, especially on the on higher loan amounts or in multiple offer situations, we're going in and turning loans around in a very quick period of time. And so I always get kind of comments from the listing agents during the process, like the loan's approved already, or we're you're all done. I'm like, yep, I'm all done. And so afterwards, when I know that you know we've we've performed exceptionally well, I reach out to that agent, not only just by telephone, but I also reach out by email and say, Hey, um thanks for the opportunity to help um in this transact transaction. Um and then I go into the reasons why the agents that use me, why they do. And you know, the the majority of those reasons are you know, speed application to uh clear to close, um, and then also really communication. So I go back to that communication piece and also responsiveness. You know, um, I just closed a loan uh that was was originated or was was about 95% originated and ready to close from a very big bank, one of the large banks that we'd all recognize their name. And I did it because on a Friday night, this borrower needed a pre-approval letter, and the the loan officer from that bank had gone, they're they were done. They were, you know, it was it was five o'clock and on a Friday and they were done, and they weren't going to be available till Monday. Of course, I answered my phone Friday night, whatever time, nine o'clock at night. I got the pre-approval in it to them in about an hour and a half. Um, I communicated with the listing agent the entire weekend, and by the time the Monday rolled around and the loan officer from the other company had bothered to like figure out that you know I had entered the scene, um, I had the loan, I had the loan pretty much done. And so um I I do I I I leverage my um I leverage my business in a way where after I do a lot of post-close interviews, I also do a post-close interview with my borrowers. What could we have done better? And so once again, it goes back to, and I think you'll hear this over and over again today, at least for me, you'll hear this, is that is communication, right? People want to know what's going on. People don't want loans done uh at them, they want them loans to be done with them. Some people want more communication than others, and I'll give them as much communication as they want and let them know what's happening, and I'll and I'm also have no problem in having that rate conversation, but I think I think um I think it's becoming um at least in my world, rate is becoming a lot less important. What's coming way more important is can you get it done? I I use this analogy a lot of a lot of the times. So if you were gonna if you and I were to get in a plane and we're gonna fly overseas, right? We were gonna fly transatlantic to London, and uh we were sitting down right now online, and we had a couple of choices. We could fly very inexpensively on um on one on one plane, but all the pilots had less than a year's experience, hadn't really done a lot of transatlantic flights, um, but that was a part of the lore, which is but you get a really good price, and and these people had never had anything um negative happen to them, so they've never had an experience of how to deal when something has a problem, or you pay a little bit more, and you have someone who's got 20 years' experience, has handled lots of different problems than before, and you know you're gonna get there. Which pilot do you want to fly your plane? And so so to me, like to me, it's you know, I feel like if someone really wants the best possible deal, they'll go to one of the big box lenders and they'll they'll roll the dice and and they will roll the dice and hope that that person will respond after five o'clock at night or on the weekends, and god forbid, if there's a problem, that they'll actually pick up the phone. And I think um all I have to do is really articulate that value proposition and get people to think about what it's gonna what's gonna look like if everything isn't perfect. And so, you know, and I learned in when I got started in the early 90s, nothing is perfect, every deal has some kind of little bit of hair on it, and it and and so just navigating that and having the experience to know, um, I think has been, you know, has been a part of the value proposition for me, and it's been it's enabled me to grow my business, have people trust me. And I think the biggest thing really is to tell people the truth, even though if what they're you're gonna tell them, they're not gonna really like, but they'll always know, at least when they deal with me, that I'm gonna tell them the truth and and then I'll do everything that I can in order to make it work if it if it's workable, and if it's not, I'll tell them it's not.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

Well, for starters, um, I'm gonna fly with the um experienced pilots, um, and I'm gonna pay first class to ride um to to fly transatlantic. Um, so um, so there's gonna be multiple factors that I'm going to take. Um, but to that point, um, that analogy, I mean, again, it especially when we're talking about home ownership and someone, especially if they're buying their first home, right? Um, to me, that is something that I would want that experience pilot, right? Like I would want someone to take me on that journey that's really going to be there for me, and not just say, Hey, I hope your parachute works. And if it doesn't, you know what, you got this at a really cheap rate. So it's all good, right? So um, you know, so I think I'm going that route. Um, and then um, you know, just something else, and and I know that you're gonna say it over and over, but but I do stand by this myself because it's something I say all of the time, is those relationships do matter. So your your point about at the end of, you know, you close a deal at the closing table or just in that closing process, right? You're doing all of that follow-up that just it it comes back, you know, and it's now it is leads, right? You know, because to your point, the agents, you know, both the buyer and the listing agent, right? Um, again, you know, you getting to the closing table, that listing agent, you know, everybody gets paid quicker, right? You know, so they like it when you get on there. And so if you can get the deal closed, you know, you already have their attention to now go ahead and talk about some of the other things that you can offer, right? Um, you know, that borrower, if you're doing all the right things by that borrower, you know, that borrower has to know a handful of people in the next probably year that they could potentially refer you to, you know.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

So I mean it's yeah, yeah, that's absolutely right. But it's and it's also not always about program and interest rate. So, you know, one of the things that I sell is speed. So I'll give an example. In the Northeast, we're still seeing a bunch of multiple offer scenarios where, especially in a certain price range, it, you know, if you're looking to buy between four and six hundred thousand, you're gonna have four, five, six offers on a property, right? And so what's left? Well, I sell speed. So my you know, my currently my average application to clear to close is 16 days. So so so I can actually go in and I'm and uh goodness, I've done it faster than that, but I sell speed. So I sell time to market. And so when I know we're gonna be in a multiple offer situation, I say to the referring agent, how quickly you want this done? I mean, if if we can really tighten the timeline up, maybe we can get this offer accepted versus other offers. And I've gotten, and over time, you know, as I've done this over time, it's been a gigantic head um, you know, uh head start for me, if you will, against other potential offers. Is is so speed is a very, very um uh is a very, very important part of uh of a something in your toolbox that you can sell um because it will it will matter, um it will matter big time, especially and especially in purchase transactions where you're up against multiple offers.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

Nice. Well, and looking at um all of this, um, you know, it's it's really I mean, it's you doing the main heavy lifting, right? Um, however, from a tactical side, what tools or systems is helping you with that heavy lifting in the background? Um, like what would you ultimately if if you were talking to someone and you were like, ooh, I couldn't give that up, right? Like definitely like have that in my back pocket.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

Yeah, so um so my the top two business, top two business tools that I use or industry tools, is uh MMI and MBS Highway. Those are the two. And I've I've planted my flag in both of those um uh those programs, and I I use them every day. So as an example, um when I'm when there's a new agent, there's an agent that I don't know, I'm going to MMI. So I understand, well, who is this agent? How much business do they do? Who are they who are they doing their business with? Are they on the buyer side and the list side? So I'm doing I'm doing that. I'm also is I also use it that if I'm up against another um a loan officer and I know the their name, I'm gonna go in and check that person out. Are they brand new? Have that do they do a lot of loans? Um, and I also provide that service to the agents that I do business with. So what I I will say to an agent, I'm like, listen, um use me as a resource, even though, like, and especially on the listing side, this is how I kind of capture new uh listing agents, is I don't go into the listing agents and say, hey, give me loans. I say, Hey, by the way, I'm doing business uh with Courtney in your office. Um, and I and I know she does a lot of buy-side transactions. I is it's a service I offer. If you if you get a pre-approval letter and you want to see, you know, you want to know something about the the person who who wrote the pre-approval letter, um email me and or send me a copy of the pre-approval letter. I'll tell you how many deals that guy did in the last 12 months, I'll tell you who they're doing them with, I'll tell you, you know, I'll tell you a bunch of things about them. And the agents love it because I'm not asking for anything in return, right? So I'm not saying I'll give this to you if you give me loans, but it goes without saying that my the opportunity to be in front of that agent uh is it makes me top of mind, right? So that's one thing. And then the other thing that I'll do is I will use the note the MMI notifications of new listings, and I'll I'll use the uh MBS Highway application, um, and I'll coordinate that with my notifications of new listings, and I'll send information like the appreciation chart or um anything that I really, you know, and any information that I can get and get in front of that agent to say, hey, congratulations on your new listing. Uh, here's some information on that property you might want to be interested in. Here's the five-year appreciation. And and so um those are the biggest tools that I use. Um, and I've and I've you know, I've sent I've promoted that within the bank to other uh loan officers. I don't think there's anything magical about it. And once again, I'm not looking for anything in return. I'm trying to be um I'm trying to be a subject matter expert in a way that lets them know hey, I'm paying attention to what you're doing. I saw you have a new listing, here's something you Might help sell it, have a great day. Like, nothing like, you know, I have great loan programs, and I'd really like if you'd use me and nothing. I just put it out there, and it's an opportunity for me to have a touch point with an agent, whether I do a lot of business with the agent or I don't, but I've had done business with them in the past, and it keeps me top of mind if there's something that you know that that they might think of me for.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

Yeah. Well, and you know, I was just having a conversation on another um webinar this morning, and you know, it's giving something to someone and providing value to someone without asking for something in return, quite honestly, is is going to get you more in return than if you than if you put your hand out and ask for something, right? Um, you know, it's better to give. Um, if we give without expecting anything back, you know, typically we we get back tenfold, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:55

That's right. That's that's absolutely correct. And um, yeah, so great tools and and is and it's once again an opportunity to get in front of those referral soldiers just to keep your name, you know, uh front of mind.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

Yeah, for sure. All right. Well, let's talk about the market and the pulse of the market. Um, and I'm gonna ask you, given that you've been doing this since '93, um, what is the biggest mistake that you think some of the loan officers are making right now? And maybe that's maybe that's newbies because they don't know the difference, or maybe you are seeing even some tenured out lows that you're kind of sitting back going, hmm, like, I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest thing is which is very hard and because it is, it's we, it's and we all um we all um kind of look for it, like which is validation. So, and what I mean by validation, not like is hey, I'm really good, but validation, like I've done this amount of work, and based on that work, I should have some kind of result, right? And I think that if you if you set out to do that work, whatever it is, whether it's picking up the phone and prospecting or whatever, or however you whatever business development you do, if you do it without looking for some kind of result, right? If you juice Jew and say, I'm gonna reach out to 50 people this week, regardless of whether I get a result or not, I'm gonna continue to do it. I think what happens is, and and I use this analogy all the time, um, uh with like with a deck of cards. Like, so if if if I had a deck of cards in my hand right now, right, we all know that there are 52 cards in a deck of cards, right? We also know there are four aces, right? We know that there's no question that there are four aces in a deck of cards, right? Well, think about it this way if I took a deck of cards and I shuffled it and the and I started turning them over, and the only people that were going to give me an opportunity to do business were going to be the aces. Okay. And let's say I turned over 12 cards and there were no aces, would you be down in the dumps and maybe stop and think, oh, this isn't working, my rates are too high? See, to me, I I have the total opposite response. My response is dang, I know there are four more aces in this deck, and I know that I'm that much closer to pulling an ace, right? So I don't, I don't just because I people tell me no, or people tell me I have a lender, I'm already doing business with someone, all the thousands of things that we all hear. I think one of the things that's very hard for people in general, and because it's by name it's by nature, which is you know, we reach out to 15, 20 people over the first two days, and we're like, Well, you know, the market's terrible, and my bank or my mortgage company, you know, we don't have the right products, or whatever those things are that are rattling around in everybody's head. I think people stop. So people are in cut in people are in constant process of starting over, and I never am. Like, I don't really care. Like, I'm gonna make those calls regardless of whether somebody says, Oh my gosh, I'm so glad you called, or you know, hang up or whatever the thing is. I don't really care, like I'm gonna do the work and the results will come, but I'm not gonna constantly stop. So I unlike and I see younger people in the business spend a lot of time like on social media and sending out things, and I'm running today and I'm doing this today. And like to me, like that's great, you can do that, but I think there's nothing more that there's nothing more important than having that face-to-face, like, get on the phone, um, like do dollar productive activities and don't stop and give yourself some kind of a number and don't be in the process of like, like, well, I called 12 people, I need to take a break because this is you know, something's wrong. And so I think that's the only thing that I would really say, which is you um, I would really say, which is uh don't be in the process of stopping and starting and stopping and starting and then taking a break. Like if you knew for certain, right? And and I've said this in a bunch of different places I've spoken, if you knew for certain that if you called 50 people, you'd have four more four new loans, how long would it take you to make the calls? Right, right, but the problem is that we we lack the certainty in ourselves, and and I think if we could if people can get over that and just say, you know, this is what it's gonna take to do this, and whether I have to call 200 people to get four loans, well, what am I gonna do? Am I gonna take the band-aid off the hairy leg slow or fast? I mean, there's gonna be pain for both. And so I I'm just gonna rip it off and like let's get going. Like, let's just get at it. And I think um if we don't, I think if we don't get caught up in in that, you know, stop and start all the time. I think people would have more success, regardless of what market they're in or what who they're calling on or who their clientele might be. I think that goes for for anybody and and really in any sales position, really.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

Yeah. Well, consistency and accountability, right? Um, I mean, you know, consistency is the fact that you are saying, like, listen, like, if this is the plan you put in place, be consistent with that plan. You know, if if Tuesday is your day that you're dialing for dollars, if you will, and that is the day that you say you're gonna dial this many people, um, then stick to that, right? Um, to your mind get discouraged. And if 15 of those calls at the very beginning of the day don't go the way you want, don't say you've got to stop and you'll finish it tomorrow and XYZ. Go ahead and plow through because you might make the 50 this week and you might not get anything, but you might make 50 next week and you know, you might not get four, you might get 10. That's right. That's absolutely true. You just don't know. And so, um, you know, consistency and then again that accountability to not say, you know, oh, I'm gonna take a break. Oh, I'm gonna stop that. Ooh, that didn't work, right? Um, you know, it's it's kind of like anything else. I mean, what is it they say it takes 21 days to create a habit? Or is that what it is? It's like 21 days. Um, you know, again, like maybe it takes 21 times for you to do that, that task or that, you know, that process that you put in place before it just becomes a habit and part of your regular routine. And now it doesn't feel like a daunting task or a daunting day ahead of you because you know Tuesdays are dialing for Dollars Day, but now you've actually found more joy in it. And and maybe it's even that your joy is that you've found some kind of fun way to go about it, right? You know, and turn it into some kind of game or some kind of you know, challenge amongst yourself on you know what you get out of it for doing.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Yeah, yeah. I think, I mean, I think and and if we're if the the bar, if the if success is measured by actually executing.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

Oh we lost you for a quick second.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

No, we lost you for like a quick second.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

Yeah, so if your bar is the executing on the plan, meaning that I'm going to at the end of the week talk to 100 people, like I'm gonna get on the phone, I'm just gonna talk to 100 people. And if that's if success is measured by that and not something that you're gonna get out of it, there's no way that in a month, if you really talk to 100 people a week and 400 people, you're not gonna, you're absolutely gonna have business.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

Right.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

Right? But and so instead of like looking at, well, I talked to 50 people today and no one was interested. To me, to me, it's like that's not really my goal. My really, my really goal is talking to this many people this week and then just continue that consistently. And I just think that's the problem that we all have. And then, of course, the second thing that I hear all the time is well, who am I gonna talk to? I mean, uh, who do I call? I mean, I don't even know who to call. I mean, to me, that's a really simple answer, but it is a simple answer only if you are um only if you are starting from a dead stop. I think it's more difficult, but I don't think it's impossible. And there's, I mean, if you have good leadership, which you know, so many of the places here and a lot of the different companies that I've uh been involved with, um, you have really good leadership, understand how to teach people. Like, I I try to never make a cold call. I always try to have some kind of connection. Um, but if I don't, I'm willing to make the cold call. But most of the time I'm I'm asking in a in a uh in a social setting. Sometimes I'll say, Hey, do you know any good accounting firms, or do you know any good financial planners in Boston? Do you know any good so-and-so in you know, in in in uh Charlotte, North Carolina? And and um, so I get names from that. Of course, I write I'll write them down and I'll or record them anywhere I'm at, in what in whatever environment that I'm in. And then what I do is I will start using that person to call other people. So, and what I mean by that is I'll say, you know, I was uh I was uh I was with Bob Stanley the other day, and Bob mentioned that you are you know one of the best financial planners in Charlotte, and then and that's how I get into the conversation. So, what I mean by that is you know, some of the lists that I build are for people to call. I I use my own spheres of influence, whether they're from high school, college, um, you know, sports I've played in the past, I will leverage all of that. Um, because I'd rather make a warm call than a cold call, but I don't it I'll do either. So I think you know, we just have to be willing to, you know, what price are you willing to pay to have the success? And I think we're in a we're an amazing industry where there's a lot of upside. And I think the difference between people that are really successful and that aren't is that there is no there is no easy way. There's no easy way to do this. This takes work. Um, if it didn't, I mean we'd have everybody doing a hundred million dollars a year. And and uh right, and so uh it takes work.

SPEAKER_02 33:17

Right. All right, so we're gonna rapid fire um a few questions at you right now, um, for a very for a quick pulse check, right?

unknown 33:28

Okay, sure.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

One technology you think that folks are wasting their money on.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

Um wow, I I don't know because I don't waste my money on any technologies. I I I um I don't know. I mean I the only thing that I would say is that if people are, you know, I think people uh focus way too much on uh lead like lead gen lead gen. I think that's a massive waste of time. If if you want to be in the relationship business, buying lead gen leads is is a gigantic waste of money. And um I think you're gonna spend a lot of time chasing stuff down by a rabbit hole. So so yeah, I actually do buying leads. That's a w it's a massive waste of time. Unless you're gonna be in a unless you're gonna be in a transactional business, which if you are, you're not never gonna have repeat customers. If you're in a transactional, if you decide to build your whole business based on transaction and that relationship, you're cooked. You're gonna be constantly starting over, like all the time.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

Yeah. Well, and and so you you basically answered one of my other questions, which was going to be more leads or data management is more important. And you basically just answered and said data management, um, rather than that. Um, what is I'm gonna reverse this now. What is one technology that every loan officer should have in today's 2026 environment?

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Uh MMI, MBS Highway, um those are the two that I use. I mean, I I can't, I would not go anywhere without those two technologies because I really my business is really, you know, the couple of the big cornerstones of my business are based on those two technologies. Um, I guess uh I guess I um uh good social media presence. I have my man, I have I pay uh a company to do it for me because you know I'm not uh technology savvy, I guess, you know. Um I'm glad that I can't, but um but uh but anyways, those are the two that I would uh tell you that that are a big part of my business, and um and I think ever should be a part of everybody's business.

SPEAKER_02 35:48

All right, all right. So takeaways um for the team. If a listener does one simple thing after listening to this episode, what would you recommend that it be?

SPEAKER_00 36:00

Don't quit. That would be it. Just keep at it, don't quit. Like, don't quit. Just keep at it, keep at it, keep at it. Most people quit before right before they're about to really have success. Don't quit. Don't get discouraged, keep focused on why you're in this thing, don't look for immediate success. Success will come with the right if you do the right things over a certain period of time, you will have success, but don't quit.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

Awesome. And then last but not least, Jim, um, how can someone find you and contact you if they want to ask you any more questions? Pick your brain.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

Um yeah, so they can um they can uh reach me um on the web. So I have uh a I have uh uh you know my website, uh I have a multiple different ways to get me through through there. Of course, my cell phone is all over the place, but you know, people can pick up the phone and call my cell. I answer my calls all the time. Um and so um I'm happy actually, you know, at this stage of my career, I I love helping other people or or or so it doesn't matter where you're from, I I will help you. Um so they can call my cell anytime they want. Of course, my email is published all over the place online. Um I I would be happy to help anybody reach out to me, but just you know, I tell people all the time, you know, I feel like I have a really simple name, Jim Van Law, but I constantly have to constantly have to say to people, all right, my last name is two words, Van Like Moving, Van Law like to enforce the law. And uh, and then they finally are able to to uh find me. But yeah, uh and anyway, they can reach me anywhere online, uh email or on my cell phone, which is all over the uh which is all over the web.

SPEAKER_02 37:45

Awesome. Well, Jim, thank you so much. Um, you guys, I hope you did enjoy today's session. Um, I know it had great content. Um, so Jim, appreciate you and I will see you soon in person myself.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

I will look forward to it. Thanks for having me on so much.

unknown 38:02

Okay.